Car in to be fixed at Dealers this morning

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:51 pm

I got up to take the car into the dealers this morning to sort out the "boot not opening snag" . Try to start car........ Engine splutters, stalls sounds like a tractor!!!. Am I cursed or what ! Now I've got 2 snags! Eventually manage to get engine started but have to keep high revs all the way to garage, cuts out several times + no power. Also symbol on dash (yellow alternator? flashing like a strobe in disco). Limp to garage explain boot snag to mechanic, he states :

"yes had several of these already, itâ€™s the solenoid" (please note if you have difficulty opening boot in future!). Also explained latest engine snag and left mechanic to it.

Took about an hour when mechanic returns with car, changed solenoid boot snag fixed. With regards to engine snag he stated:

"I hooked up ECU to computer and it diagnosed misfiring on one cylinder. I then went into deeper memory ??? and downloaded new software? The snag is fixed have road tested and its running sweet as a nut + more responsive etc?"

The problems are sorted and the engine does seem to be sweeter so I'm chuffed. But I can't understand how a software download into "deep memory"(whatever that is ??) has sorted out what surely must have been a mechanical problem as stated by the diagnostic computer reporting misfiring on one cylinder ?

Anyone have an idea?

By the way the garage/dealers were Peugeot Warick Wright in Ilford. I've have to say that the service I've received from them has been spot on both today and in the past and I can recommend them.

Rgds

Rich

Alex LS · Post by **Alex LS** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:38 pm

I can't understand how a software download into "deep memory"(whatever that is ??) has sorted out what surely must have been a mechanical problem as stated by the diagnostic computer reporting misfiring on one cylinder ?

Yep. It's an easy one, this.

You know on old cars, they used to have those ignition systems which had archaic things like coils and distributors? Well super spiffy new cars don't have them any more. The ignition system's controlled by a computer.

All the timing and duration of the spark for each chamber is controlled by the computer and altered depending on loads of factors such as position of throttle, current engine speed, fuel octane rating, current CO emissions and so on.

The computer is controlled by software - software can contain bugs as well as design flaws. Your upgrade has obviously ironed out the bug which caused a misfire in one of the cylinders.

Not a mechanical problem, but an electronic ignition problem.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:16 pm

Alex,
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the differences between electronic compared to manual ignition but I can't see how my "original" software in the ECU developed a fault ?. The ECU doesn't contain a harddrive like a computer which has human intervention via keyboard and subsequent input etc which can cause a computer to crash.

The ECU just runs a set of instructions. If the ECU worked fine/controlled the engine yesterday ! What has affected it to cause the problems today ?

Rgds

Rich

Alex LS · Post by **Alex LS** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:46 pm

Ever heard of bugs? I don't mean to be patronising, but I have written software. I have also had to troubleshoot software and bugfix software.

Software can appear to work fine under testing but can contain faults that show up under rare circumstances.

For example, there may be a bug that only appears if:

1) The engine speed is in a certain range
2) The octane rating of the fuel is a certain value
3) The engine temperature is in a certain range
4) The CO emissions are in a certain range
5) The alternator (or battery) voltage is in a certain range
6) The outside temperature is in a certain range
7) etc. etc. etc.

This bug may not come up in testing because to eliminate every single bu, you would have to reproduce every single condition. It is normal practice to ship software with known bugs, never mind unknown bugs - it's all down to deadlines and revenue.

I can't actually tell you what affected the system to cause the exact problem you had because I don't work for Peugeot and I didn't write the software. The very fact that a software upgrade solved the problem, however, is a fair indication that it was a fault in the software which was responsible in the first place.

By the way, the ECU does contain a storage area (not a harddrive, but solid state - much more reliable than a mechanical device but still prone to faults). It also takes human interaction - every time you press a switch (windows, indicators, throttle, brakes etc).

Alex LS · Post by **Alex LS** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:48 pm

Just to add a real-life example, think of the NASA probe that missed its turning recently and headed off into deep space. If NASA can have a hidden bug in their software on a multi-million (billion?) dollar probe, I'm sure Peugeot can do the same in a car.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:21 pm

Cheers for clearing that up Alex. I'm just thankful that the car is under warranty and all these snags get fixed for free. I love my 206cc but can't see myself keeping hold of it beyond the 3 year from new mark !. Just get the feeling its too risky

Rgds

Rich

MattB · Post by **MattB** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:47 pm

Just because Windows is running fine today doesn't necessarily mean it'll be running fine tomorrow! Same idea for the ECU. Now OK, your Pug isn't powered by Microsoft (thank *&^% for that!) but hey, it's still a computer! I program them for a living as well and know how temporamental even the smiplest thing can be!

Julia · Post by **Julia** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:51 pm

Can I ask a really blonde question?

Can one of the older CCs (ie non multiplex) still receive a software update and have all this info updated??????

Alex LS · Post by **Alex LS** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:26 pm

Yes. Any car with an engine management system (and surely that's most if not all of them these days) should be able to have it upgraded.

Pauline · Post by **Pauline** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:56 pm

I had mine upgraded cos it cut out (once) and the STOP light was flashing on - and has flashed again since, but not as often... so don't know what the problem is...

Paul Keville · Post by **Paul Keville** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:05 pm

I've had the cutting out problem, and very lumpy tickover. When starting from cold its sluggish and very low on power. Scary when your pulling into traffic on a morning at snails pace.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:22 pm

Paul,
That sounds exactly like the snag I had on mine i.e mechanic said misfiring on one cylinder take it for the software upgrade.

Julia,
Mines a Y reg so yes no problems with updating software.

Rich

rob · Post by **rob** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 9:28 pm

the reason that the software was working one day and then not the next is down to the memory chips that store the software.

If you get into the hardware side of computing you would become aware of 'Cosmic Rays' and theoir associated joys

Dont laugh,

this is serious. Computer crashes can be linked to events on the sun, you know those sun spot thingies. So theres nothing we can do about it except shield all your electronics in lead, and that adds weight and you go slower - take the risk of the occaisional need for a software update

R_W_Essex · Post by **R_W_Essex** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 9:31 pm

Its not just 206cc mate.
On my Fezey the exact same thing happened kept cutting out. They looket at it 3 yep 3!!!!! times and then it just stoped when they updated the software

Sara · Post by **Sara** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:40 am

My problems don't seem to be quite as complicated as yours and touch wood were fixed on Thursday. I had the same boot lock problems, which would not let me dead lock the car, each time I dead locked it the alarm would go off for no reason. To my amazement Peugeot seem to have fixed it first time, in a matter of hours, so I can oly asume it's a problem they are aware of, or they just changed every part connected to cut out all possibilities. But even more to my amazement they did have all parts in stock. They changed the boot solenoid and all the internal sensors in the car.
have you got it fixed yet.
Sara