Hi All,
Just getting over a day of hassle with the Plod and my CC.
Finally got my Log Book thru from the DVLA yesterday, so took my car details into the DVLA office yesterday to have my personal plate transferred onto it, all went thru fine DVLA took LogBook stamped my part and issued a new tax disc,
Anyway today I got stopped by the plod, who said the computer in their car was showing my number plate as non existant!,
I explained it was a cherished transfer yesterday, showed them the tax disc. and the DVLA stamped part of the log book, but they were having none of it, insisted that it was not on their system and as such the car was impounded, they said my only options to get the car home, were
1: an AA tow,
2: replace the original 03 reg number plates which I had in the boot still, till I pointed out that they did not match the tax disc or my insurance that I had changed to the new plate. they then ruled out this option and impounded the car until I called in the AA to lift it and tow home,!
How the hell can they do this when I had all the paperwork showing the transfer,
Anyone with any legal knowledge here think I have a claim against them for the hassle caused!
Vicky
Hassle With Police and Personal Plate!
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Robbie
- Posts: 2827
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:00 am
Hmmm as a cherished plate owner I can sympathise. I'd be interested to know 2 things though.
1). If they were traffic police or local constabulary.
2). Also if you only had the bottom slip of the V5 document with the new V5 to come through the post or had you been given back the full V5 document bearing the new cherished number. Assuming the latter is correct:
In my view they had 2 options, ie to arrest you if they believed you held forged documents relating to a possible stolen vehicle (a non starter as a Police National Computer check would have revealed your being the owner of the vehicle under your old licence plate, the ones in the boot or have allowed you on your way. Quite clearly I would have done the latter. If they also saw your paperwork I can only assume they thought you were genuine, otherwise you 'd have been down at the police station still answering questions about what you were intending to do with the car on false plates.
So I assume they must have accepted your account of cherished plate change but refused to allow you to continue driving because the DVLA had not yet changed details on their Police National Computer.
It seems petty in the extreme to impound your car if you showed them your were legally entitled to drive the car with the cherished plate as stated on the amended full V5 bearing your new cherished number together with the tax disc.
I would consider lodging a formal complaint at the police station (though I would think carefully about this as such complaints can sometimes bring reprocussions - like all of a sudden you get stopped a few times in your local area). Ring the DVLA to explain what had happened to find out if a delay in updating the PNC is normal (which I believe it is ) or whether a delay error was made on their part. A free 30 minute session with a solicitor should also give you an indication wheather it may be worth persuing a civil claim for your inconvenience though I would have thought such an action would be pointless unless you were seriously out of pocket.
Robbie.
1). If they were traffic police or local constabulary.
2). Also if you only had the bottom slip of the V5 document with the new V5 to come through the post or had you been given back the full V5 document bearing the new cherished number. Assuming the latter is correct:
In my view they had 2 options, ie to arrest you if they believed you held forged documents relating to a possible stolen vehicle (a non starter as a Police National Computer check would have revealed your being the owner of the vehicle under your old licence plate, the ones in the boot or have allowed you on your way. Quite clearly I would have done the latter. If they also saw your paperwork I can only assume they thought you were genuine, otherwise you 'd have been down at the police station still answering questions about what you were intending to do with the car on false plates.
So I assume they must have accepted your account of cherished plate change but refused to allow you to continue driving because the DVLA had not yet changed details on their Police National Computer.
It seems petty in the extreme to impound your car if you showed them your were legally entitled to drive the car with the cherished plate as stated on the amended full V5 bearing your new cherished number together with the tax disc.
I would consider lodging a formal complaint at the police station (though I would think carefully about this as such complaints can sometimes bring reprocussions - like all of a sudden you get stopped a few times in your local area). Ring the DVLA to explain what had happened to find out if a delay in updating the PNC is normal (which I believe it is ) or whether a delay error was made on their part. A free 30 minute session with a solicitor should also give you an indication wheather it may be worth persuing a civil claim for your inconvenience though I would have thought such an action would be pointless unless you were seriously out of pocket.
Robbie.
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Vicky
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:14 pm
- Location: N Derbyshire
Hi Robbie
In answer to your questions,
I had the bottom part of the logbook, with a DVLA Stamp on it dated for the day before, marked by the DVLA Office ("Reg Change to V1KYL" 15 July 2003")
They accepted that the car was mine, after they did a PNC Check on the old plates in the boot and the VIN Number that came back registered to me and checked with my Drivers Licence Credit cards and the entire contents of my wallet!
They were local not traffic,
As in my earlier post, at first they said they would let me continue to drive as long as I removed the private plate on the spot and replaced it with the original 03 plate I had in the boot, but then ruled that option out after a discussion between themselves giving the reason that it would be an offence for me to drive with
1: Plates that did not match the Tax Disc
2: Insurance registered to a number different to the car!
I will give the DVLA a call later today and see what they say
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FOLLOWUP
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Just spoke to the DVLA, who said that it will take 6 weeks for the new log book to be issued and till then if stopped I need to get the Police to check with the DVLA local office that did the change if they are unhappy with the documents, only problem is that they are only open Mon-Fri 9to5 so outside those hours there is no way the police can check that all is legal and it is at their discression how to proceed!!.
So seems driving outside 9to5 Mon-Fri is a bit of a gamble for the next month or so!
Regards
Victoria
In answer to your questions,
I had the bottom part of the logbook, with a DVLA Stamp on it dated for the day before, marked by the DVLA Office ("Reg Change to V1KYL" 15 July 2003")
They accepted that the car was mine, after they did a PNC Check on the old plates in the boot and the VIN Number that came back registered to me and checked with my Drivers Licence Credit cards and the entire contents of my wallet!
They were local not traffic,
As in my earlier post, at first they said they would let me continue to drive as long as I removed the private plate on the spot and replaced it with the original 03 plate I had in the boot, but then ruled that option out after a discussion between themselves giving the reason that it would be an offence for me to drive with
1: Plates that did not match the Tax Disc
2: Insurance registered to a number different to the car!
I will give the DVLA a call later today and see what they say
-----
FOLLOWUP
-----
Just spoke to the DVLA, who said that it will take 6 weeks for the new log book to be issued and till then if stopped I need to get the Police to check with the DVLA local office that did the change if they are unhappy with the documents, only problem is that they are only open Mon-Fri 9to5 so outside those hours there is no way the police can check that all is legal and it is at their discression how to proceed!!.
So seems driving outside 9to5 Mon-Fri is a bit of a gamble for the next month or so!
Regards
Victoria
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col
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2001 1:00 am
- Location: Newcastle
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Vicky
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:14 pm
- Location: N Derbyshire
Hi
Yes but as Robbie said, a formal complaint could also have repercussions,!
Bear in mind a run a business based in the town where this happened and sometimes need the assistance of the local plod,! I can't really afford to get on the wrong side of them!
I will probably have a word with a divisional officer from the office that controls this local station explain the situation and see if I can get something in writing from them in case I get stopped again!
Victoria
Yes but as Robbie said, a formal complaint could also have repercussions,!
Bear in mind a run a business based in the town where this happened and sometimes need the assistance of the local plod,! I can't really afford to get on the wrong side of them!
I will probably have a word with a divisional officer from the office that controls this local station explain the situation and see if I can get something in writing from them in case I get stopped again!
Victoria
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thebigkung
- Posts: 269
- Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:00 am
- Location: Hampshire
Vicky,
I think you were hard done by these guys. Your car was clearly legal, you had all the paperwork. They believed the car was yours, so they cannot suspect it was stolen. Having an incorrect computer record is not proof of legality/illegality.
They should have explained what powers were enforce to impound the car (non in this case!).
Unfortunately it was you against the law, and if you don't know it inside out you will always lose
even if they have no rights to stop you. You can only complain, but that is after the fact, when the damage is done.
Regards,
Sherlock
I think you were hard done by these guys. Your car was clearly legal, you had all the paperwork. They believed the car was yours, so they cannot suspect it was stolen. Having an incorrect computer record is not proof of legality/illegality.
They should have explained what powers were enforce to impound the car (non in this case!).
Unfortunately it was you against the law, and if you don't know it inside out you will always lose
even if they have no rights to stop you. You can only complain, but that is after the fact, when the damage is done.Regards,
Sherlock
Regards,
thebigkung
thebigkung
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Duncan
- Posts: 1041
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Berkshire
I try a complaint against the DVLA they seem to be the ones creating the difficulties try
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/other/complain.htm
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/other/complain.htm
"all aboard the Skylark"
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CB
- Posts: 4312
- Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Classified
:x I have a real "anti-police" streak to me these days...(odd considering i actually got accepted for West Mercia Constabulary in my distant past)
Everytime i try and convince myself that they do serve a purpose and its just the odd one who is a petty little Hitler, stories like this crop up to nip those warm fuzzy feelings in the bud.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune Vicky, but console yourself with the fact that you'll never have to scrape to their level in order to feel important
Everytime i try and convince myself that they do serve a purpose and its just the odd one who is a petty little Hitler, stories like this crop up to nip those warm fuzzy feelings in the bud.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune Vicky, but console yourself with the fact that you'll never have to scrape to their level in order to feel important
[img]http://bluntman.d2.net.au/newsmilies/brick.gif[/img]
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Vicky
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:14 pm
- Location: N Derbyshire
Hi
No luckily the AA took it home free under my recovery scheme as the car was offically disabled once the police said it could not be used on the road,
I went into the Divisional Police Station at Chesterfield and things are even stranger now!
I live in Shirebrook which is in Derbyshire and the car was in Shirebrook (Just)!, but the police who were causing the problem where Notts Mansfield Division!, (Shirebrook is in Derbyshire, but on a Notts Post Code),
Derbyshire Police said it was up to them to deal with cars in Shirebrook, not Notts,! so they are looking into it, they also confirmed that my documentation was correct an suffienct!
Strange!
Victoria
No luckily the AA took it home free under my recovery scheme as the car was offically disabled once the police said it could not be used on the road,
I went into the Divisional Police Station at Chesterfield and things are even stranger now!
I live in Shirebrook which is in Derbyshire and the car was in Shirebrook (Just)!, but the police who were causing the problem where Notts Mansfield Division!, (Shirebrook is in Derbyshire, but on a Notts Post Code),
Derbyshire Police said it was up to them to deal with cars in Shirebrook, not Notts,! so they are looking into it, they also confirmed that my documentation was correct an suffienct!
Strange!
Victoria
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slimgym
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:27 am
- Location: Potters Bar,Herts
You're unlikely to get stopped, but caught out by ANPR which the cops love because it's easy. That's why they also hit hard on plates with illegible fonts since it makes the unit alarm like you're running a false plate ...so I think I'd be in the same boat as you if I get stopped in the next few weeks
This will give you 1400 hits showing why they love it so much.
Dave
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Robbie
- Posts: 2827
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:00 am
Vicky,
I'm also assuming your cherished plate was correctly spaced etc so there was no reason for these constables to try and pick on you, not that their behaviour is condoned in any way or form.
Its worrying that these constables appear to have stopped you in an area outside their jurisdiction, in my time as a Met officer the only officers having jurisdiction in different counties were the Met. It sounds like 1 of 2 things, either they wern't real police and trying it on for gratification or for the keys (which seems unlikely) or they were unfamiliar with their own area patrol, and in view of the way you were treated, it leads me to believe they may have been probationers under 2 years of experience in the job.
At least if they appear to belong to another constabulary and well out of your area its less likely you'd suffer reprocussions if you complained to a police station in their county.
I think you have 2 possible complaints, 1). they excercised their powers outide their jurisdiction which is potentially a very serious matter and 2). they clearly dealt with the situation quite incorrectly, as thebigkung said you appear to have had adequate documentation to show you were legally entitled to drive the vehicle (otherwise they would not have accepted your story) and in my view should not therefore have hindered you. In which case they would themselves be lucky to get away with only having to issue you with an apology.
If you do log a complaint against the constables its quite a serious matter. They would probably have to wait some 6 months for an internal hearing before they knew wether or not they will be exonerated or possibly disciplined. Generally the more outstanding compaints under a constables name, the more of a cowboy reputation he gets.
Other cherished plate owners having just changed cars in my view should not worry unduly as long as they have their documents to hand ie tax disc & at least the bottom of the V5 endorsed by the DVLA. It seems unlikely to me that other officers would follow such a drastic and draconion form of action.
I'm also assuming your cherished plate was correctly spaced etc so there was no reason for these constables to try and pick on you, not that their behaviour is condoned in any way or form.
Its worrying that these constables appear to have stopped you in an area outside their jurisdiction, in my time as a Met officer the only officers having jurisdiction in different counties were the Met. It sounds like 1 of 2 things, either they wern't real police and trying it on for gratification or for the keys (which seems unlikely) or they were unfamiliar with their own area patrol, and in view of the way you were treated, it leads me to believe they may have been probationers under 2 years of experience in the job.
At least if they appear to belong to another constabulary and well out of your area its less likely you'd suffer reprocussions if you complained to a police station in their county.
I think you have 2 possible complaints, 1). they excercised their powers outide their jurisdiction which is potentially a very serious matter and 2). they clearly dealt with the situation quite incorrectly, as thebigkung said you appear to have had adequate documentation to show you were legally entitled to drive the vehicle (otherwise they would not have accepted your story) and in my view should not therefore have hindered you. In which case they would themselves be lucky to get away with only having to issue you with an apology.
If you do log a complaint against the constables its quite a serious matter. They would probably have to wait some 6 months for an internal hearing before they knew wether or not they will be exonerated or possibly disciplined. Generally the more outstanding compaints under a constables name, the more of a cowboy reputation he gets.
Other cherished plate owners having just changed cars in my view should not worry unduly as long as they have their documents to hand ie tax disc & at least the bottom of the V5 endorsed by the DVLA. It seems unlikely to me that other officers would follow such a drastic and draconion form of action.