Annoying Issues Preventing Car Staring :: SOLVED

[peugeot206cc]

Hi All,

This is my first post here, i've currently invested a lot of time and money into trying to solve these issues. The story so far...

Decided to give the girlfriends car a service and changed the oil, plugs...after noticing the coolant was disgutingly abnormal I drained that down, flushed the system and refilled and bled. The exhaust had also had it so fitted a complete new system...started her up and took her for a drive up the road.

After getting to the top of the road the temperature started to climb rapily and the STOP light flashed up on the dashboard. After turning the car off and cooling it down for about 30 minutes, I turned it around and rolled back down the hill and onto the drive. The temperature soared up again, but I shut the car off before it could get too hot again.

After changing the thermostat and checking there was no airlocks in the system I started the car up again, the same issue persisted. The weekend come around and I stripped the engine down to check the water pump, after removing this there were no blades on the impella. I nipped up to get another one and replaced that, put the engine back together, refilled with new coolant and run her up. Temperature was no consistent and reading normally.

The car was due for an MOT so I drove it to a local MOT station with no issues at all and it was running well, until I notice it was in Economy Mode! This seemed to be restricting the car from getting above 4k revs, but wasn't too noticable driving through town since I didn't get that high only at one point.

During the MOT

The tester took the car in, and was revving the car for some time...after about 15 minutes he come out and said it had failed on emissions and said the car was VERY hot so advised me to let it cool down. After popping out to the car to inspect it, it was indeed very hot again. I let it cool down for an hour and started it back up again.

On the way home

I decided to risk driving it home since it had been alright on the way there and the tester had really been giving it some beans to get an emissions reading!!

After driving down the motorway the car seemed fine, although still in economy mode and seeming restrictive the temperature was consistent. Once getting back into the town and whilst waiting at a set of lights the car started getting hot again and steam appeared from under the bonnet. I pulled over in a safe place and shut the engine off, After carefully lifting the bonnet the expansion tank was where the steam was coming from and the engine bay was very hot.

I had this recovered home and put back onto the drive, after checking over the car nothing seemed obviously wrong. I have left this until i've had time to take a thorough look at it.

Initial Checks

- The car doesn't now start
- The engine is cranking and moving freely
- Replaced the battery as the old one was knackered
- The coolant is now the same colour it was when i first thought it needed changing
- After draining down the cooling system, looking in the expansion tank it looks like it has the presence of oil in the tank as the shiney slick you normally get when mixing liquid and oil together has.
- Compression testing the cylinders gives me readings of CLY 1 - 150, CLY 2 - 155, CLY 3 - 152, CLY 4 - 151 (this to me says the gasket isn't yet shot, but the indication from the expansion tank would disagree with this)

What does the computer say?

I purchased a copy of PP2000 and the correct interface to use with the car, after plugging it in and running a global test the following issues have come up:

Engine ECU
- Permanent fault. Coolant thermistor Short-circuit to positve or circuit open.
- Permanent fault. Upstream oxygen sensor signal Cohearance.
- Permanant fault. Configuration
- Intermittent fault. Upstream oxygen sensor heating command.

Multifunction Display
- Permanent fault. Absense of communication with the audio equipment (I have an aftermarket stereo so this error will persist)
- Intermittent fault. No +ve permanant on the display

Instrument Panel
- Remote permanant fault. Coolant temperature information. Incorrect value received.
- Remote intermittent fault. Absense of communication with the built-in systems interface.

Sun Roof
Permanant fault. Left rear window closing time exceeded

My take on this

So I think and i'm looking for clarification here or other suggestions:

- Coolant temporature sensor is faulty
- Lambda or other sensor in exhaust system maybe faulty (this would explain the MOT issues with emissions)
- The incorrect readings on the instrument panel is probably due to the sensors being faulty.
- The head gasket is blown as there is the presence of oil in the tank and the coolant was a muddy brown colour after just two run ups of the engine.

Any help would be greateful, i've given as much information as I can here so someone can offer the right direction.

[Capncol]

I think your diagnosis is correct.
The O2 sensor to look at is the one nearest the engine (pre cat) Also check fan is running when hot.

[peugeot206cc]

Thanks for your speedy reply Col...

Do you know the technical name for that sensor?

I can't start the car, but the fan is running when i turn the ignition on and run diagnosis then turn the ignition off. So something's getting confused here since its not hot.

[peugeot206cc]

Well I've changed the coolant sensor, the o2 sensor, charged the battery and cleared all the faults.

The car still won't start and the ECU EML is still on, any ideas where to go from here?

I plugged PP2000 back up to the car and there are no errors logged, but the car is still in Economy mode and I understand this will persist until the car is started again.

I'm not sure if this is now a immobilizer issue, the car has been stood around for a while, but then again it started fine last month on the way to the MOT station.

The ECU in this is a SIEMENS unit, hardware ref 9646777280, product ref 9646777280, software version 24.01, software ref 9648138480.

I really hope this isn't as the mrs bought this car without any docs, key pin, no original key or fob! This is now becoming a nightmare!

After a little bit of googling it may not be the immobilizer as the ECU would apparently refuse to interact with PP2000 at all if the car was immobilized

[Capncol]

Are you seeing crankshaft sensor coherance?

[peugeot206cc]

Hi Col,

I'm new to this fault finding, how do I see this and what am I looking for?

cheers
Steve

[Capncol]

MIL light should store a fault. Crank sensor should show up in live data when cranking

[Slo]

Drain all the coolant then take out all the spark plugs to see if they are wet as this will prevent them from working and while you've got them all out spin the starter to eject any fluids from the cylinders then refit the spark plugs and see if it runs.

[peugeot206cc]

Thanks for the info col, my question was more related as to where I can see this information.

I have ordered a new sensor which comes today, there are no faults coming up on the BSI or doing a global test except on the multifunctional display, but as stated before this is due to an aftermarket stereo.

I have tested the battery and getting a full 12+v reading off of this, i've cleaned all the plugs up with some electrical cleaner.

@Slo - the car has already been drained of any coolant, my first post describes whats been done and the synopsis based on the expansion tank having an oily residue in. I have also removed and checked the brand new bosch plugs and their as dry as a whistle. If there's oil in the coolant then the gasket is probably shot on the gallery side, not the cyclinder side.

Thanks for all of your input so far, I shall hook up the new crank sensor once it gets here today and report back.

Just to confirm current results:

The car still has an EML lit on the dash dispite clearing all faults and I've replaced all the sensors which PP2000 reported as dodgey. I am now getting normal readings from the coolant sensor and there's no reports of any other faults.

I have googled immensly to try and see where the crank sensor output is in PP2000, but I cannot find anything. I've tested the sensor with a multimeter and the readings all all over the place by just pulling the sensor out and checking the resistance. Readings from 163 - 202.

Other things to note

- Still shouting eco mode from the display on the centre console (I read col's connection and disconnect proceedure. At the time the battery was flat I just pulled it out of the car, charged it up overnight and stuck it back on the car to test. How do you know if the BSI is bad?)
- I've managed to get the PIN and Key code online for the car and have re-paired the key, PP2000 reports the transponder is recognised and the ECU state changes to unlocked when the key is inserted. I pulled the transponder out of the key and it remains locked and transponder not recognised so this surely illiminates any suspected imobiliser issues?

Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this at some stage, its eating my time up fast (and money)

[Capncol]

I can't understand that you have a MIL light without a fault??
It's been a while since I have used PP2000 but I think live data is in a submenu from pp office. I can hook mine up later and look if you are stuck

[peugeot206cc]

Hi Col,

Just to confirm its the engine management light thats on (EML), not sure what MIL light stands for.

The crank sensor has just arrived, i've just got some work to finish off (work from home so its convinient), then I shall nip out and pop it on.

I spoke to a local company this morning about the BSI unit testing and repair costs and they said if it stays in Economy Mode and they are no errors then this maybe a BSI issue which is causing non start. It'll cost me £35+VAT for the test, but i'm not sure they if it'll need re-coding.

I'm at a major loss with this one, any further help would be appreciated since i'm throwing good money after bad trying to solve the issue. I appreciate its impossible to remotely diagnose, but I see you've been around here a while and your post carry some credible answers.

Once the sensor has been changed, I shall try rebooting the BSI from your other posts and see if that clears any faults. If not any suggestions?

[gazza82]

MIL: Malfunction Indicator Light .. aka EML: Engine Management Light

[Capncol]

I didn't mean for you to replace sensor before verifying it is faulty. It is a cause of non start but not definitive as could be other things. I will try and help you tomorrow as I'm on my iPhone now. I will ask you to check a few things

[peugeot206cc]

Thanks for the input guys, sorry i'm a little hasty in trying to resolve this. My day jobs computers and Google so it often leads to lots of research and as we know there is some pretty daft advice on Google.

I managed to grab half hour and change the sensor, after fitting this I followed your guide on resetting the BSI and turned the key and vroooom it fired straight up! I'd like to say a massive thanks for your help and if you give me your paypal i'll send you a few beers!

I've still got to sort the Head Gasket as the oil in the coolant needs to be sorted then I think she'll be ready to go and get an mot again. The haynes manual should cover me for that task

[j2112]

Brilliant news