Separating Ball Joint from Wishbone

[JoeS]

Hi all!

Firstly, thanks for Capncol's lovely write-up on changing the reluctor ring (http://www.peugeot206cc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=13633) which brought me to this forum.

But I guess it might be obvious from the thread title that I've stalled at the "Seperate the balljoint" step.

I have spent a less that happy couple of hours getting more and more heavy-handed with it along with an hour rummaging on the 'net for hints (http://jimbutterworth.co.uk/5suspension.htm best I could find).

With reasonable tools, removing the pinch-bolt was ok but there doesn't seem to be anywhere to lever-off to pull the wishbone and hub apart!

With a jack and chain, I can put some force between the hub and wishbone and get the spigot to come out as far as showing the groove for clearing the pinch-bolt, but for that last centimetre, the two seem immovable.

So... does anyone here have any helpful/vital hints? Is there something odd about the geometry that needs the subframe or anti-roll to be slackened? Is there some odd little procedure ("pull harder Igor")?

Cheers!

[Capncol]

Try opening the gap where the pinch bolt goes through with a blunt cold chisel, and with a long crowbar or similar, jam the crowbar under the chassis but over the top of the wishbone and lever down.

Pity you didn't post this earlier as I did one today. Could have posted pics, but can probably do some dummy pics tomorrow if that helps. Let me know

[JoeS]

Brilliant, thanks for that!

I've opened the pinch enough to just see the shiny metal each side of the rust stripe that marks the normal gap - doesn't mean it's wide enough though!

I must be missing something obvious about lever points because I can't spot a good place... the best I can find is so close to the wishbone mounts that there's hardly any leverage! I have a 2' crowbar to hand but maybe this job needs a mightier beast!

I will take your advice and open up the pinch a tad more in the morning (when my hammering and cursing won't draw the neighbours!).

Thank you!

[Capncol]

You need a longer crowbar than 2ft. I use a 4ft one. Don't use a balljoint splitter as you will damage the dust boot (MOT failure)

[JoeS]

So...

Carefully ground an old chisel to the shape and opened the pinch a tad more (0.8mm)... still sticks in the same place.

Off to my local scaffold supplier (a pleasant 15min walk in the afternoon sunshine) and £6.25 bought me a 5' scaffold pole. This I slipped over my 3/4" straight-bar (all very imperial this, old school). A gentle lean on the bar pulls the bush out as far as the clearance ring for the pinch-bolt, there's then a clunk as the hub twists (toe-out) and it sticks. It won't move further even with me bouncing on it (and I'm not skinny!).

I think it's catching on the groove... need a coffee and a think!

[waxhead]

there a bugger to get out. i have a 5ft iron bar and it has bent with the amount of times i have done them.
from the front put the bar on the top of the wishbone close as pos to the ball joint, then slide to the back of the chassis rail. and i literally jump on the bar and the shock absorber and hub will pop outwards and sometimes pulls the drive shaft a little so be quick to push back in to save your gear oil or even better undo the hub nut.

[gazza82]

I've resorted to lifting the hub and strut slightly with a jack ... gives you those precious couple of mm's ...

[JoeS]

OK... I had a think and a scribble and came up with... the patent bush-remover tool:

bush_remover.jpg

Being a bit of 5mm bar with an 18mm disc (5p coin) silver-soldered to it.

It works like this:

bush_remover_operation.jpg

The bar stops the bush twisting as it leaves the hole, the disc bracing the top of the bar and the M6 bolt bracing the middle.

The procedure is to lever the wishbone down a few millimetres, slide the tool into the pinch-gap so that the disc slots in on top of the bush. Then lock in place with an M6 bolt through the pinch-bolt hole.

Then lever down with a 2' bar. Instead of getting stuck on the slot in the bush, it slides down until clear of the hub. Also leaves one hand free to catch the hub as it skips out.

Inspection of the hub shows a small lip near the bottom of the hole on which the slot in the bush was catching - so perhaps I'm only coping here with an earlier botch.

Right, now then, reluctor ring...

[Capncol]

Nifty idea. I take it you got it off OK in the end.
I must admit, I haven't really had trouble separating ball joints before, but I do use a big bar and having done quite a few, I suppose I have developed the "knack" of doing them.
It's a lot easier with both front wheels off the ground as then you are not fighting the anti roll bar.

[JoeS]

Yes thank you - and thanks for all the advices: it is so valuable to be able to rule out possibilities when you're dealing with a sticky problem. I love expert forums (fora?) and hope I've paid-back a little with feedback.

Though the bush is obviously prone to twisting in this way (and so needing a bit of extra welly), I'm pretty sure that 'lip' I see inside the hole means I was dealing with a bit of damage, probably from previous repairs (CV boot has certainly been replaced in the past). In the end it just slipped out nice and easy, one hand on the bar, one on the hub.

I did think of disconnecting the anti-roll coupling - but they're so hard to line-up for re-assembly I couldn't face it! That IS a two man job imo.

Another way of solving it might have been to get someone else to lean into the hub as I pulled down... but once it is released there'd be two of us fighting with springs and jemmies and recriminations! As a jewellery maker, I'm perfectly happy making up a little tool at my bench, judging things by eye and silver-soldering a few miscellaneous items together!

[gazza82]

Had to change the n/s lower arm today ... can't say I was looking forward to it.

Old arm off in about 40 mins ... including jacking up and getting the axle-stands under.

Removed the two mounting bolts and the pinch bolt.

I shoved a long length of 4x2 (hardwood) between arm and driveshaft with the end under the floor pan and the front sticking out under the front bumper. Stamped on the end and voila ... popped out of the hub!

Getting it back was not going to be so quick!

First tried Mr. Haynes recommendation which is to fit the balljoint to the hub first ... but then the bushes in the arm will NOT go into place ... greased the edges of the bushes, but the angle arm and bushes sit at it just to much to push into the chassis

So back my my way which is to fit arm in chassis first. However this time I tried something else ... I've never been able to push the new arms down enough to get the ball-joint back in ... so today I removed the hub nut and pushed driveshaft out and wedged it to one side. I was getting worried I'd pop the inner CV joint. Then turned steering fully to right so now the strut and hub was pushed further out. Slid new arm in (straight in and lined up in seconds!) and fitted mounting bolts and nuts loosely. Replaced drive shaft partly into hub and pushed arm down with same length of wood until ballpoint pin was resting on base of hub. By twisting it slightly the flat of the pin sits on the bottom of hub ... and will slide over (that was the plan!). Removed the wood.

Gently pushed the hub assembly back while winding the hub nut on to slowly draw the driveshaft in. Now turned the steering back to straight ahead. Back to leaning on hub and tightening the hubnut and eventually the balljoint just popped into place.

Pushed pinch bolt through and fitted new nut. Then just a case of tightening everything up.

245Nm on hub nut! What!!! My torque wrench goes to 210!! So old steel wheel on, dropped car to floor, in gear and hand brake on tight and chocked rear wheels ... wound up hub nut to 210 then used a breaker bar and my weight on end to tighten it as far as I could and align split-pin hole and castellated nut ... that has to be tight enough (used same technique for the Hdi when I replaced o/s driveshaft and arm).

Now back to garage/try dealer for tracking and we're done. Took about 2 1/2 hours all told. With a pit I probably could do it in the 1.6 hours Autodata states!

Old arm? Split and hardened balljoint rubber, both mountings split and parting company with the bolt shaft.

Damage? £26 for new arm off one of my favourite suppliers, cut finger ... don't know when or how, but boy was there blood!!! And I'll need a new impact driver ... ok mine was one of the hammer types and probably older than most of the forum members on here but it just managed to loosen the hub nut before it broke ...

[madhillbilly17]

its not just me i had trouble getting the ball joint out and in too(the first time round ),ive done quite a few and this is the hardest ive come across but i did find a good way well the easiest way and thought i would share for anyone else that is having a bad day lol.first thing i done was jack the hub up with a trolley jack till the shock is right up,then clamped the spring with spring compressors then let the jack down on the hub,then i put a bar in between the drive shaft and lower arm and it popped out easy,refitting with the spring compressor still on i got the hub in front of the ball joint then used a ratchet strap to pull it into place.

[Capncol]

Instead of a block of wood, I use a "digging bar". Got it from Wickes years ago. Looks like this one Never had a problem getting any ball joint apart with it, although on some cars with a really heavy antiroll bar, it helps to disconnect it first.

[Elpuglet]

Try opening the gap where the pinch bolt goes through with a blunt cold chisel, and with a long crowbar or similar, jam the crowbar under the chassis but over the top of the wishbone and lever down.

Pity you didn't post this earlier as I did one today. Could have posted pics, but can probably do some dummy pics tomorrow if that helps. Let me know

Have you still got those pics? Replacing wishbones 206cc and spending way too long getting ball joints out. 3/4's of the way out, that little end of the joint doesn't want to pop out Also the middle sub bolt too hard to remove, pressed up against the axle, why? Perhaps that will come out when ball joint is removed. Cheers, cross the fingers,

[Capncol]

That was 4 years ago. Sorry.
What do you mean by "sub bolt"?
Will do a "how to" when I do the next one (although I realise that doesn't help you now)