Notice of Intended Prosecution

Millsy · Post by **Millsy** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 9:49 am

The loophole is definitley not closed. Read the links. One judges ruling has even made the loophole even easier!

Alex LS · Post by **Alex LS** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:20 pm

It's not a loophole. If you don't sign the form, you are liable to be charged with failing to identify the driver - an offence worth 3 points & a fine in its own right, IIRC.

The *only* loophole which still may exist is passing the NIP immediately to a third party and instructing them to act on your behalf and for them then to not sign the form.

LSainsbury · Post by **LSainsbury** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:17 pm

Hello people...

As predicted by some of you...got the letter today....and they sent two copies of it...how nice !

3 points + Â£60 ...BUT... I only qualify if I have less than 8 points on the licence....I currenty have 9 -

SP30 - October 1995 - FP03
SP50 - July 1998 - FP03
Sp30 - December 2000 - FP03

Where do I stand, as some of these have now expired, but they are still "on" the licence....

Do I send it and hope for the best, or is it a complete waste of time in court number 3 in a few weeks??

Cheers for the advice!

Alex LS · Post by **Alex LS** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:18 pm

You only have 3 points on your licence.

LSainsbury · Post by **LSainsbury** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:17 pm

Yeah - I phoned them today to confirm the situation...

Points are there for three years but DVLA will only remove them after four years....

I have 3 points.....now I have to decide to a) pay Â£60 and get 3 extra points of b) slug it out with Mr Judge....

:rolleyes:

Mr_AWOL · Post by **Mr_AWOL** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:46 pm

I would just take the points.

At the end of the day you did it, so unless you have incredible luck or what you consider to be a foolproof get-out then you will get over double the punishment in court. At the end of the day if you take the 3 points then you have a safety zone if you get done by a camera - some seem to be sited at points where they will trick motorists into breaking the law and getting done, so it is very risky to be driving around on 9 points!

I have seen cameras sited just past a lowering of the speed limit on motorway roadworks, or even worse just past where the national or higher speed limit signs are, when the higher speed limit sign is ON THE SLIPROAD.

I would demand a photo though

Alex LS · Post by **Alex LS** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:07 pm

Yeah - I phoned them today to confirm the situation...

Points are there for three years but DVLA will only remove them after four years....

I have 3 points.....now I have to decide to a) pay Â£60 and get 3 extra points of b) slug it out with Mr Judge....

:rolleyes:

It'll be a magistrate, not a judge. Magistrates are worse, IMO. They can also give you a bigger fine and more points, and they almost certainly will.

BigDawg · Post by **BigDawg** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:38 pm

Fill in all the details but DO NOT SIGN THE FORM!!!

Under UK Law there is no obligation to sign the paperwork and as such this makes it inadmissable in court. By filling in the details though you have fulfilled all your obligations within law.

I followed this course of action from a NIP I recieved in Jan and the police dropped the charge in September with no further action.

For more details visit:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/unsigned.html

or

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unsigned_forms/

LETS BEAT EM AT THEIR OWN GAME

I think that loophole in the law was closed a while ago...and besides - to late - I've already returned the signed form!

Lee

Its illegal not to sign the form and always has been. Here is my plan:

"I regard the allegations with the utmost of concern as I am being asked to make a very important decision, which could seriously affect my position within the company that I work for. As a travelling sales engineer, my driving license is important.

I shall be grateful therefore if you will advise me where, in law, does it state or allow for evidence against a suspect to be deliberately withheld following, or during, the process of an official demand for the payment of money (in this case Â£60 fixed penalty). I would also like to know why I am not offered a â€œSpeed Awareness Courseâ€

LSainsbury · Post by **LSainsbury** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:38 pm

Good luck Craig!

BTW - For those who want to know - I got a Â£60 fine and 3 points - as some of you correctly guessed!

Lee

britboy · Post by **britboy** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:04 pm

HI. Good luck.

BUT IF I WAS BEING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE I'd be thinking the following to your letter (comments start with '--')

"I regard the allegations with the utmost of concern as I am being asked to make a very important decision, which could seriously affect my position within the company that I work for. As a travelling sales engineer, my driving license is important.

-- As a police man I don't understand. You're either innocent at which point you go to court, or you are not at which point you plead guilty and don't go to court. This is a pretty clear now. If guilty - pay. If not - contest it .. The idea of your very important 'decision' directly suggests that you ARE guilty but are deciding whether you can get away with it or not. So that's already put my back up and I think you're definately guilty now. Oh and what your job is, is completely irrelevent to us we all live under the same laws here so that's also annoyed me. It's like saying 'I'm a child molester but you can't ban me from seeing kids as I'm a teacher and it will screw up my job'. Frankly -- who cares?

I shall be grateful therefore if you will advise me where, in law, does it state or allow for evidence against a suspect to be deliberately withheld following, or during, the process of an official demand for the payment of money (in this case Â£60 fixed penalty). I would also like to know why I am not offered a â€œSpeed Awareness Courseâ€

Alex LS · Post by **Alex LS** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:20 pm

"I regard the allegations with the utmost of concern as I am being asked to make a very important decision, which could seriously affect my position within the company that I work for. As a travelling sales engineer, my driving license is important.

Then make sure you don't speed, or at least don't get caught. The decision is easy. Do you admit to speeding or not? If you do, do you accept the conditional offer not to proceed through the courts?

I shall be grateful therefore if you will advise me where, in law, does it state or allow for evidence against a suspect to be deliberately withheld following, or during, the process of an official demand for the payment of money (in this case Â£60 fixed penalty). I would also like to know why I am not offered a â€œSpeed Awareness Courseâ€

Alex LS · Post by **Alex LS** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:23 pm

One final point. Would you rather they dispensed with the conditional offers and automatically took everyone to court? Magistrates rarely stick to 3 points. The common penalty for speeding would go from Â£60 + 3pts to around 5pts plus fines running into hundreds.

tonymag · Post by **tonymag** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:42 pm

Just a quick one , a lot of the police forces now adays are using a thing called tetra , if the officer doesnt activate something on the radio called talk inhibit then it affects the speed guns, because tetra is digital when the talk inhibit is applied it is logged at the main station.

Mr_AWOL · Post by **Mr_AWOL** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:39 pm

I saw that lettrer ages ago, so if it worked then, it probably doesnt now. I know the dutch have a rule that it must be sorted by the plod within so many days, so they sent their letters in written in chinese, arabic, alien or other languages to try to slow things down.

The biggest problem i have with the system, is them refusing to send the photo before court. This is total bullshit!. How do i know it wasnt another cc that noted my number plates (off a website picture, or at a meet perhaps, or just because they live near me and saw my car) and has put the same ones on their car so they font have to worry about speed cameras? If i have the photo i may see a GB sign, or a lack of lexus lights, which enable me to inform the police that this wasnt my car? If me and a passenger are shatring the driving? we dont note where and when we swap over! I may be able to see my head over either the drivers or passengers headrest, so i can identify the driver! Particularly now, with police forces keeping cash from fines (BUT THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT IF IT GOES TO COURT!!!!!) it is more and more in their interest to with-hold evidence and pressure you into taking a fine, guilty or not

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:30 pm

I saw that lettrer ages ago, so if it worked then, it probably doesnt now. I know the dutch have a rule that it must be sorted by the plod within so many days, so they sent their letters in written in chinese, arabic, alien or other languages to try to slow things down.

The biggest problem i have with the system, is them refusing to send the photo before court. This is total bulls**t!. How do i know it wasnt another cc that noted my number plates (off a website picture, or at a meet perhaps, or just because they live near me and saw my car) and has put the same ones on their car so they font have to worry about speed cameras? If i have the photo i may see a GB sign, or a lack of lexus lights, which enable me to inform the police that this wasnt my car? If me and a passenger are shatring the driving? we dont note where and when we swap over! I may be able to see my head over either the drivers or passengers headrest, so i can identify the driver! Particularly now, with police forces keeping cash from fines (BUT THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT IF IT GOES TO COURT!!!!!) it is more and more in their interest to with-hold evidence and pressure you into taking a fine, guilty or not

Official complaint to Mr Awol!

Your valid point just woke me up

Robbie.