Firefighters Strike....Yes or No?

CB · Post by CB » Tue Feb 04, 2003 5:09 pm

"LET YOUR HOMES BURN" PLEAD FIREMEN
The leader of the Fire Brigades Union (FBU), Andy Gilchrist, launched a radical solution to break the deadlock in the fire strike today. "It seems clear to us that concentrating on pay and conditions has not worked in the current negotiations. As such, we have tabled an agenda which offers a modest pay increase and modernised working practice in return for a commitment from homeowners to assume first line firefighting duties their own bloody selves."

Emergency? I don't think so.
Mr Gilchrist pointed out that most fires attended by the service resulted in massive losses as a result of fire and water damage, regardless of how quickly the fire was extinguished. "If people simply let fires burn out themselves, the damage is likely to be about the same. However, this way it has the tremendous advantage that it will not cause disruption to a firefighter's sleep patterns or the unnecessary use of equipment that could be better employed nipping down to the shops or attending a local charity event or supermarket opening."

"naked flames"
The Â£85,000 a year father of none, speaking via satellite link from his Â£2 million mansion on the Algarve, then went on to call for a massive 40% drop in emergency calls. "I know this is an ambitious goal, but with public support, a willingness not to dial 999 and the following of a few common-sense rules such as never smoking, lighting fires or using candles, matches or other naked flames, I know we can achieve it. And in the event of a fire, our message to the public is simple: do not call out the fire service unless a firefighter's home is also at risk."

Mr Gilchrist sees this as an "escape route" to the stalemate of the ACAS negotiations. He remains resolute in his rejection of the employers "meagre" 11.6% offer, whilst other public sector workers were coming away from the negotiation tables with agreements - some in excess of 1.9%. However, Mr Gilchrist did offer one other ray of hope by stating that he was prepared to enter into exclusive negotiations linking his own pay to those of business leader in a similar role such as the "Chief executives of Vodafone, GlaxoSmithKline or possibly the Prime Minister" as a way out of the deadlock.

"Break It"
Mr Gilchrist also urged the public to change its view of the fire-fighters as "do-gooders" who are prepared to lay down their lives for others at little or no reward. "Altruism is so 20th Century. We're not the RNLI or Mountain Rescue Service, prepared to do a dangerous job purely for the benefit of others. The public service cry of the 21st century will be 'What's in it for us?'" he cried, clutching a copy of "If it Ain't Broke - Break It" by famed Management Guru, Dr Hugo Z Hackenbush.

Mr Gilchrist finished by explaining that the philosophy of "public service" was radically outdated and people should now recognise the firefighters' entitlements under the Human Rights Act to minimum periods of "lounging about, reading papers, playing pool and waiting for something to happen."

andyc209 · Post by **andyc209** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 5:26 pm

Gilchrist is in it for his own means.....wants to be the next scargill!!

Still waiting for a reponse from a fireman as instead of beeping my horn, I shout 'greedy bastards'

then I drive past the dole office looking at the people who would love to be able to do such a job for probably half the current salary!

Its about time the firemen woke up and realised that 30% or 40% (whatever it is today) is never going to happen and Gilchrist is just leading them a merry dance!

stephen T · Post by **stephen T** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 5:34 pm

no way. they knew the wages before they entered that line of work. they also knew what the job invloved. i dont see why they should hold the country to ransom when they knew what they were getting themselves into.

Mr_AWOL · Post by **Mr_AWOL** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 10:49 pm

Firemen & Farmers - both receive seem to be unable to grasp some simple rules of economics.

If there is a lot of a product about (ie people willing to be firemen) then that product is worth less than if it is very rare. At 50 applicants for each advertised job, firemen are not rare, and therefore cannot expect to earn a lot of money.

Interestingly enough, fireman comes below fisherman, lorry driver and even WINDOW CLEANER in the list of the most dangerous jobs - there has been 1 fireman killed in active duty since 1998, compared with 17 policemen (and i dont think that even includes the recent copper who was killed by the ricin terror plotters)

One thing that IS becoming increasingly rare, is finding anyone who is in support of the firemen. They do fewer hours, but earn more than many of us!

I will cease ranting now! :redhot: :redhot:

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:08 pm

sack the lot of them me thinx and get new ones

stephen T · Post by **stephen T** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:28 pm

those immigrants looks good candidates. work for free or be booted out.

rob · Post by **rob** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:37 am

Still waiting for a reponse from a fireman as instead of beeping my horn, I shout 'greedy bastards'

Wonder if they will remeber you if you have a crash and cut 40% less of you out the car.

Anyway I support them. So thats 12 of us (in the UK)

Mr_AWOL · Post by **Mr_AWOL** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:48 am

Anyway I support them. So thats 12 of us (in the UK)

Oh i support them in their role as firefighters, i think they do a very good job. I just dont think they should strike and i dont think they deserve any more money!

Bump that tally up to 12.5

Huu · Post by **Huu** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 5:00 am

oh my gawd ! ! in the recent bush fire crisis here in australia we have fireman fly in from all over the country even from the united state to help us out, without them many lives/properties would be lost, some firemen even lost their lives trying to save people

. We even have volunteers, thats right volunteers who work arround the clock without asking for anything... STRIKE ! ! holigawd that would be the last thing on their mind. What the hell are they thinking, i am shock ! Fireman is regard as heroes here in Australia and i seriously hope they wont stood to that level in the future.

Back in 1923 Police went on strike in melbourne AU, Mobs ran rampage through the city and alot of people were killed, since the remaining force isnt enough to deal with the looting and vandalism, finnally civilians volunteer team up with the remaining force to again put order to the city, as the result more then 600 striker police were sack ! ! and never reinstated... so sack the lot of them i say!

CB · Post by CB » Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:30 am

Mobs ran rampage through the city and alot of people were killed,

Sorry Huu, which area of Manchester are you on about again?

Dave-T · Post by **Dave-T** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:45 pm

lock them on a boat and send them dowunder, there are many bush fires here.

CB · Post by CB » Wed Feb 05, 2003 2:04 pm

I think Huu had a very good point...in Australia Firefighters are a well respected breed of people (especially in Bush-Fire season) I would possibly go as far as to say that they probably have "hero" type status...The same can be said of American Firefighters (especially post-September 11th...Now if the British Fire Brigades Union had played their hand a bit better they could have (rightly or wrongly) played on peoples emotions and used this to their benefit...Instead, their militant leader Andy Gilchrist has sold them up the river with his excessive demands. A big mistake has been made letting the British people know exactly what the average fireman does. 2 days, 2 nights (of which they can sleep until a "shout") followed by 4 days off. That in reality is 6 months a year off work. Plus annual leave which i believe is 30 days per year. 7 months a year off. Before sickness obviously. Now work out how much of a firemans time is actually spent fighting fires compared with the amount of time drinking tea, watching videos, playing pool/table tennis/volleyball etc and it all becomes crystal clear. They will not modernise because it will mean losing the cushy shift pattern and they will be unable to hold onto their second jobs....it is a known fact many Firefighters moonlight as cabbies, especially in London - do you know how long it takes to learn "the Knowledge"?
I am speaking from personal experience in these matters. A few years ago at my old base, RAF Lyneham, the aircraft servicing technicians were made to switch from their shift pattern of 3 days, 3 nights followed by 6!!! days off to a shift pattern of complex hours involving earlies, lates, days, nights and swing shifts meaning the vast majority had to give up second jobs. Quite a few of those people ended up in financial difficulties because they relied on that second wage to pay mortgages etc. It eventually caused that many problems they reverted back to the old shift patterns. Exactly the same would happen to Britains Firefighters if they were to reform their practises. Of course they don't want to.
I am not bitter and twisted. I currently work the same shift patterns they do. 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off. One month annual leave. I too have 7 months a year "off". And I think that is wrong. The difference is I don't get paid as much as the average fireman. The difference is perhaps the vast majority of times my life isn't in as much danger as the average fireman. The difference is they don't ask the average fireman to spend approxiamately 4 months a year plus away from their families in places like the Falkland Islands, Kosovo, Bosnia, Croatia, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Oman, Bahrain, Kuwait and shortly Iraq (where some of us are going indefinitely. But do we Strike? No, a) because its illegal and b) because we knew what we were doing when we joined up
As has been pointed out already, there are 50 able-bodied men applying for each and every Firefighters job. Compare this to the British Army where there is one able-bodied man applying for over 50 under-filled positions. In the Armed Forces our last 2 pay-rises of any significance came after the last firemans strike in the 70's and after the last Gulf War. I'm hoping for a 40% rise after all this crap is over!!!

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 2:59 pm

A lot of good points have been raised here, I thought I'd accidentally wandered onto the Guardian's talk boards.

What I think and this is just my opinion is that the fireman aren't being particularly greedy in wanting to be paid an extra 40%, after all, 40% of not very much is, well, not very much.

For me the issue here is that, in the public sector and service industry pay generally is very low.

The bottom line is if the firemen are defeated, then the government will think they can force through whatever derisory offers they see fit onto other public sector workers when their pay deals are negotiated. Which is precisely the kind of behaviour Thatcher et al engaged in during the 80s after destroying the NUM and effectively crippling trade unionism. Which is also why the current government spent so much time, effort and money trying to recruit more nurses and teachers by putting their pay back on track.

Everyone deserves to be paid a fair rate commensurate with their skills, experience, level of risk and performance.

I believe that it is a right of any worker to withdraw their labour, as an ultimate sanction, should the conditions of their employment be such that they feel they cannot continue. This is one of the fundamental differentiators between paid workers and slaves (I'm afraid I'm quoting Gilchrist with that last bit but it's standard trade union stuff).

After all, unless we all hang together, we all hang...together.

Erm · Post by **Erm** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 3:55 pm

jesus christ.......

i aint readin all that :rolleyes:

andyc209 · Post by **andyc209** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:10 pm

no pictures!