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Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

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Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby wizlinkx » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:30 pm

Hi guys, I'm new here.

I have a petrol 2006 206CC, with 184K mileage. New Battery, Spark Plugs.

Need your expertise on this unusual problem.

Was running well for a year without any engine issues.
Two weeks ago, I was approaching colour lights, as I slowed down around 20Kmh, the engine lost power.
Attempted to start with no luck. Took it to a garage and they said it was the timing belt.
Since the engine was cranking, I thought they were trying to take me for a ride.
So I took it to another garage where the mechanics are experienced in Peugeot.
They read the DTCs and said it was the Manifold Air Pressure meter. I saw the code P0108.
So we replaced it. And Still no start. Then another mechanic in the same garage tested the car and said there's no fuel pressure.
I lost trust and brought the car back home thinking I'll do it myself ;)
Previously I had repaired two Ford Probes and a cobra of mine.
So with confidence :) I did the following.

1. Tested for fuel pressure by switching the ignition key to ON position several times, then bleeding the pressure valve on the fuel rail near the injectors. It squirted, but not very far. But with cranking squirts well.

2. Tested for fuel pressure by switching the ignition key to ON position several times, then bleeding the pressure valve on the fuel rail near the injectors after 1 hour. No pressure. This made me think the fuel pump was actually faulty, since the pressure release valve in the fuel pump seem to not work.

3. Removed the fuel pump and saw the pressure valve is broken. Bought new pump and replaced. Checked the pressure after 2 hours, and it was ok. But still no start.

4. Checked the ignition coil and plugs. When I crank the engine, the plugs are producing spark.

5. Checked the injectors. When ignition key is turned to ON, there's 12v and back to 0v. While cranking No 12v.

6. I confirmed this at the engine fuse box, black connector near the dual function relay.

7. There's no voltage at all at the speed sensor. No response from Tachometer other than an occasional kick. I traced the speed sensor cables and found to be directly going to the ECU, contrary to a wiring diagram I found on Scribd, which helped me to understand the arrangements, but the wire colours and some connections are different in my 2006 206 cc.

8. Today, I peeped at the CAM sprockets while my friend was cranking the engine. To my surprise, they were not turning. Does this mean the timing belt is broken? Stumped!

I know that the timing belt has to be replaced at least by 150K. The guy I bought it from last year assured most of the parts were new.

Hope you guys can help me out in any way.

The only place I can get PP2000 help is the dealer. And that's going to be a big bill.

Thank you in advance.
2006 206CC TU5JP4 NFU, 1.6l, 16v engine, Tiptronic, 184.000 Kilometers, Automatic A/C.
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby IanL » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:36 pm

If the engine is turning, but the camshafts are not, the cause is almost certainly a broken timing belt.

I don't know which engine you have, but I believe the 16V 1.6 litre TU5JP4 is an interference engine, in which case you probably have damaged valves. I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby wizlinkx » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:50 am

Thank you for your input IanL.

Yes, I know it could have been the timing belt. Just wanted the opinion from someone else who knows the car well. Didn't want to think it was, as I know it's one major repair.

Not certain if it is a TU5JP4 engine, but I saw in a label on a wire going to the ECU that read "for TU5JP4 engine". The pictures in Wikipedia however is different. In my engine, the engine oil filler is toward the left side, when looking from front of the car. In the transfer papers it was typed 1.6L. If I'm not mistaken its a TU5JP4 NFU engine.

I'm live in a flat in a building complex and the car is in one of its covered parking. So I don't think I'll be able to do the Timing belt and Water pump replacement myself. It's a nightmare giving it to a garage. mechanics here are totally oblivious to safety, and don't even put a support under the engine when they remove top mounts to do repairs. I have seen this.

Thanks again IanL.
2006 206CC TU5JP4 NFU, 1.6l, 16v engine, Tiptronic, 184.000 Kilometers, Automatic A/C.
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby gazza82 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:36 pm

It could be the belt has stripped a section of teeth and is now sitting against the crank pulley .. or worse the crank pulley has come loose or the woodruff key has broken meaning that is not turning. Either way it's going to be fairly major heart surgery unless you can get hold of a 2nd engine.

Wikipedia is never to be trusted ... if it's a CC then the only 1.6 engine fitted was the 16V twin cam ..
206tu5jp4.jpg


And neither are private vehicle sellers .. :-)
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby wizlinkx » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:01 pm

Yes that's exactly the engine in that picture.

Gosh I hope it is just only the teeth broken on the belt and not anything else like valves. So far didn't hear any hard knocking or grinding sounds.

I know it is going to be a huge engine rip out. Used engines are pretty ridiculously expensive here in comparison to what I see in UK. About $ 850.00

Thanks for your valuable input guys.
2006 206CC TU5JP4 NFU, 1.6l, 16v engine, Tiptronic, 184.000 Kilometers, Automatic A/C.
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby gazza82 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:20 pm

Problem is if the crank turns and cam don't so valves don't move ... they will hit the piston. And even at idle speed that is never good news.

I had the same on an Alfa ... just on the starter and spinning over it bent most of the valves and broke some valve guides.
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby wizlinkx » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:35 pm

Well, don't know how much damage I'd caused so far :popping:

If pistons, valves and the guides are ruined, it's better installing a new used engine I guess. Or buy a another car :)
2006 206CC TU5JP4 NFU, 1.6l, 16v engine, Tiptronic, 184.000 Kilometers, Automatic A/C.
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby johnbrander » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:32 am

Assuming that the belt has broken then most likely that the only damage is bent valves, over her valves cost about £15 - £20 each and you may need 8 or more, easiest option - find a replacement head as pistons are probably OK.
First thing is get the head removed then go from there
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby gazza82 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:49 am

wizlinkx: Adding a location also helps .. you should be able to do that using the User Control Panel ...
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby wizlinkx » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:08 am

Thanks John, that's very much a logical option contrary to replacing individual components on the cam shaft. I'll get a clean new (used) head and less labour time and cost for replacement. But I'll also have to replace the gaskets.

If I remove the two plastic covers on the camshafts, would I be able see the damages to the valves and guides? I haven't touched the engine yet. I'm guessing that to replace the head, I don't have to drain the engine oil? But may be the coolant?
Last edited by wizlinkx on Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
2006 206CC TU5JP4 NFU, 1.6l, 16v engine, Tiptronic, 184.000 Kilometers, Automatic A/C.
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby wizlinkx » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:11 am

Oh thought I already did.

I set the location.

I'm in Dubai now, and my real name is Gerard. I keep using my email address name everywhere as a username. :facepalm:
2006 206CC TU5JP4 NFU, 1.6l, 16v engine, Tiptronic, 184.000 Kilometers, Automatic A/C.
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby gazza82 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:51 am

wizlinkx wrote:Thanks John, that's very much a logical option contrary to replacing individual components on the cam shaft. I'll get a clean new (used) head and less labour time and cost for replacement. But I'll also have to replace the gaskets.


And the cam belt assembly (belt, guide wheel and tensioner) and the water pump. The latter is driven off the belt and is probably well over its "sell by" date!

wizlinkx wrote:If I remove the two plastic covers on the camshafts, would I be able see the damages to the valves and guides? I haven't touched the engine yet. I'm guessing that to replace the head, I don't have to drain the engine oil? But may be the coolant?


You won't see unless you can get into the engine. The valves are still under the cams and the cam followers. Possibly an endoscope might but as the plugs and valves are in the head, the endoscope would need to view upwards ...

You won't need to touch the oil (I'd still change it along with the filter), and you will need to drain down the coolant.

You may also need new head bolts as some are stretch-bolts and need to be replaced if over a certain length.

Once you get started the shopping list always grows ..


Might be worth investing in the manual or their on-line version ..
https://mole.haynes.com/manualOverview; ... C56A4420BC or ServiceBox
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby wizlinkx » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:15 pm

Thanks Gazza.

Yes, guess have to get that head off then.

Thanks for the link to the manual.

Thanks a lot again for the input.

I'll keep posted on the progress.
2006 206CC TU5JP4 NFU, 1.6l, 16v engine, Tiptronic, 184.000 Kilometers, Automatic A/C.
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby wizlinkx » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:46 am

Gazza, found that Hynes manual for the 206 does not cover the 1.6l 16v engine.

Would that matter? The Timing setting could be different from 8 valve to 16 valve, correct?

From what I have seen in a video, the two sprockets have sync setting holes each, where you can insert bolts, same for the crank pulley. So, as long as those holes are aligned and locked by proper size bolts while putting the belt and adjusting the tension, all should be well?
2006 206CC TU5JP4 NFU, 1.6l, 16v engine, Tiptronic, 184.000 Kilometers, Automatic A/C.
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Re: Engine cranking, no start, cam sprockets not turning

Postby IanL » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:12 am

The Haynes for the 306 includes the TU5JP4. Cylinder head bolt tightening is different from those in Haynes for the 1.4 engines. Btw, I have compared Haynes with Service Box, and the data in Haynes is different to that in Service Box for the 1.4 engines - Haynes data is unreliable. See the last post in this thread.

Image
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