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Oil filter change

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Oil filter change

Postby Spitfire6 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:34 pm

Hi,
I had a cunning plan.

Replace oil filter.
Add a bottle of engine flush.
Run engine for ten minutes and drain.
Replace oil filter.
Refill with synthetic 5w40 from The Range (£16.00).
Run for a week or two.
Drain oil and replace filter.
Refill with Mobil 1 FS 0W40. (The best available IMHO).

The oil filters were £2.60 each so using three of them costs nothing really.

Problem at step#1.
Can't get filter off and it now has a hole in the bottom where I tried the screwdriver method with no success.
AA called and will be here in an hour..
Shame...., Shame...., Shame.... LOL.

Would the eBay item number:282725049062 be useful at under £3.00?

Cheers,
Iain.

PS_ Corrected mistake in bold to 40=!!!!!!!! I did say 30!!
Last edited by Spitfire6 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Capncol » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:38 pm

I use this type. I don't like those strap types.

https://primetools.co.uk/product/facom-170-filpb-hgv-xl-oil-filter-removal-pliers-95-178mm/#

I think Halfords do a cheaper version.

PS. I wouldn't use 0-30 oil
Cheers Col.


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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Spitfire6 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:42 pm

Hi Col,
Typo:
I meant: 0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi.
It was selected from Rat's Blog. I run the same in my 72 car in place of the crap 20W50 everybody else uses.

Why would you not recommend my "typo" 0W30 oil?
Unfortunately I do not have an oil pressure gauge fitted to the car, but even though the xW30 might give a lower oil pressure, the important flow would be better.

To be honest; If Mobil made a "better" oil that was 0W30, I would use it in place of the 0W40 that's getting put into the car in a couple of weeks time.

The cheap synthetic I have put into the engine is already going black, so at least its cleaning.

Cheers,
Iain.

PS. the oil filter tool is out of my price range! Quality I'm sure.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Capncol » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:23 pm

If you use an oil of lower viscosity (however good it is) you run the risk of lower oil pressure, tappet problems, Cat problems, and poss ECU faults and increased oil consumption and leaks. More so with an older engine that has clocked up a few miles.

Those engines were designed for 5-40 fully synthetic.
Unless you have built some kind of race engine, you have nothing to gain and would be an uneccesary cost.
You would be better spending the money on a decent pair of filter grips :big-grin:

Check out the Halford ones. I'm sure they are much cheaper. I need good ones as I use them several times a week :thumbs:
Cheers Col.


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Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)

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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Spitfire6 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:16 pm

Hi,
The Halfords one will be purchased tomorrow after work.
Halfords Oil Filter Pliers 300mm (12") £11.99

Col, My engine has done 110K Miles. So I will stick with the 0W40 FS then as If 5W40 is recommended, 0W40 can only be better?

Cheers for the advice on tool.
Iain.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby IanL » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:02 pm

Spitfire6 wrote:....So I will stick with the 0W40 FS then as If 5W40 is recommended, 0W40 can only be better?


Wrong! The zero means that oil is too thin to protect your engine. It should only be used in engines for which it is recommended by the manufacturer.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Spitfire6 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:54 pm

Hi,
How is it too thin? The "40" is the grade at operating temperature. So 0W40 & 5W40 are the same grade at operating temperature.

Too thin? What magic oil do you use that does not get thin when it heats up?

I think you are trying to say that 0Wx is thinner than 5Wx when engine is very cold? Yes they are of course and the 0Wx will protect better at very cold temperatures.

At ambient temperatures; there is not much difference in thickness between the two to worry about.
While my engine is warming up I do not rev or load it, so the xW rating matters not. Of course, 20W40 would be a poor choice if it existed as you would have very high warm up pressure and therefore very low flow that is needed to protect the engine during start up and warm up.

I hope that clears that up?

Cheers,
Iain.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Spitfire6 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:32 pm

Hi,
Picked up my oil filter deal from Halfords.
Weekend will dump another (Free) bottle of engine flush in the "The Range" oil and suck it oot.

New filter and Mobil 1. Happy days I hope.

I will keep a proper record this time of oil use on a 110K ish mile engine.

I have two Oil Analysis Service kits I bought for the Spitfire; I will use them on the Pug.

Cheers,
Iain.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Spitfire6 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:34 pm

Hi the Millers oil test kit!
Cheers,
Iain.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby GrandadMonkey » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:21 am

I have to say I agree with Col on the viscosity issue. Strongly.
Ron
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Spitfire6 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:04 pm

Hi all.
I understand that the engineers should no what's the best type of oil for the 206 cc 2l 16v engine. The same engineers who advised an oil service interval of 30 000 km/ 24 months. I'm afraid i waste money and change at less than half that.

If Peugeot recommend EW10J4/L4 then of course they had their reasons and know best. I'm not arguing that.

The oil I am going to use is the same viscosity at engine running temperatures but at startup it is thinner and therefor better for the engine IMHO. The lower oil pressure at startup is because the flow is greatly increased and it is the flow that mitigates engine wear not pressure at startup. I wonder why the engineers did not fit an oil pressure gauge yet fitted an oil temperature gauge?

i'm not looking for an argument, I just cannot understand why some say its too thin and others say my assumptions are just plain wrong.

Please somebody explain with proof why my choice of 0W40 Mobil FS is a bad choice?
If Opie Oils backup my choice will that be enough proof?

Thanks in advance.
:santa:
Cheers,
Iain.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby IanL » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:19 pm

Spitfire6 wrote:..... but at startup it is thinner and therefor better for the engine IMHO.


That's the bit I disagree with. Engine wear rate is at its highest when the engine is cold, and oil of too low a viscosity will tend to offer less protection than oil of the viscosity specified by the manufacturer. It is a compromise - too high a viscosity and the oil will not flow fast enough to get to the critical places in sufficient quantity, and too low a viscosity will not sufficiently "insulate" the rubbing surfaces from one other.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Spitfire6 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:11 am

Hi Ian,
Something to consider;
At running temperature the 0W40 oil is thick enough and at full load provides protection. I think we agree?
At startup the oil is much thicker and the loads are much smaller.

I think you think oil gets thicker when it gets hot? I does not. Engine oil is too thick at startup.

Anyhow, if my 100K mile engine uses oil that could lead to many problems with emission equipment; A xW50 might be a band aid fix, but the choice of 0Wx will make minimal difference to oil usage as its thicker when cold and that's for about ten minutes.

I'm still not convinced on a non oil using engine that 5w40 is a better choice than 0W40.

Cheers,
Iain.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Capncol » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:35 am

Engines are made of many different materials that expand at different rates. Also different parts of the engine are at different temps when up to running temp. (Oil takes a lot longer to get to working temp than coolant and the upper viscosity given, ie 40, is when it's at 100 deg C) Normal hot oil temp for the 206 is about 90 deg C.
Engine manufactures allow for this expansion to give the correct running clearances when up to temp. These clearances can change through the life of an engine due to wear.
A thinner oil can provide less cold start protection due to larger running clearances when cold.
If too much oil is escaping through Crank bearings and piston cooling jets etc, it can effect the volume of oil at the camshaft causing oil film probs. Oil getting past cold pistons and valve guides at start up can contaminate cat convertors. As I said, "CAN" not necessarily "will" and this is not always the case, but the engine manufactures take all this into consideration when specifying the oil to use in their engines.

Bare in mind that all manufacturers are striving to produce the best MPG and emission figures so will naturally try and use the thinnest oil possible to reduce friction.
It wasn't that long ago that 20/50 oil was the standard, but with better, closer manufacturing tolerances have allowed the use of thinner lower viscosity oils. People like Ford used "selective fit" to build their engines in the '70s.
Try using 0/30 in an early Rover V8 3.5- you will have no oil pressure.

This is why I said earlier, unless engine has been blueprinted or modded, I would stick to recommended oil spec

These are my thoughts and backed up with many years of rebuilding and modifying engines. Currently I'm building 2 Chevy V8's, both modified and 2 std spec Volvo diesels.

This is all a bit academic now as you've bought the oil. I'm interested in your oil testing kit. How does that work?

EDIT: My blue printed and modded KADs loose 10 psi oil pressure hot idle on 10/40 compared to 15/40
Detroit 2 stroke Diesels specify monograde 40. If you use multigrade you loose nearly all oil pressure (google it)
Cheers Col.


206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)

When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.
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Re: Oil filter change

Postby Spitfire6 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:34 pm

Hi Col,
Apologies for late reply. Been busy at work.
Well, you can't argue experience as a good source of knowledge so i wont try.

I'm the person that will try something different even if it goes against what most people think.
I have never run my 70's Spitfire on mineral 20W50 and never would put any oil in it that was not fully synthetic oil (Ester) and 0W or 5W 40/50. Time will tell. ZDDP? I do not believe this is needed and happy, so far, used API SL and now SN with no problems. That's why I purchased the oil analysis duo kit from Millers Oil.

The Oil analysis kit I purchased is just a bottle and a return packet; take a sample of oil and send it to Millers Oil for analysis.

I plan on changing the "The Range" oil this weekend with oil filter and refilling with M1 FS 0W40. Run for a month and send a sample from the top of the sump to Millers Oil. I will then run for a year with this oil and send a second sample for analysis. If the first or second come back with high wear readings I am **http://www.peugeot206cc.co.uk/posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&t=17491# as a recon engine will cost more than the car is worth!

I drive 25 miles. 2 miles 25 Miles 5 days a week plus weekends. If I think that 0w oil would shorten the life time of my car, I wouldn't do it.

Wish me luck and look forward to the oil report early next year.

Cheers,
Iain.
206 CC 2L owner. 2002
Triumph GT6 Soft-Top 6Cyl 2.5EFI . 1972
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