Possible coil pack problem me thinks but can anyone confirm?
Hi guys, I've recently been having issues with my car!
Now the symptoms are cold starting completely fine, after around 20/30 mins driving the car seems to lose power. Not to a point where it's undriveable but to where its noticeable. I am still able to accelerate but not harshly its a very smooth acceleration even if my foot is to the floor. Also whilst at constant speed around 30-40 mph I can be in 3rd/ 4th gear, I seem to be giving fuel to maintain speed and then all of a sudden it seems the problem dissapears or clears and the engine seems to get a shot of fuel and speeds for a second or two until i release the pedal. I had a cat failure a year ago and it almost feels like the same symptoms as that. There is a noticeable change in exhaust tone.
I've had the cat checked as its under guarantee all seems fine so that rules that out.
I've taken to a garage who apparently specialises in my vehicle and he states he can't find anything wrong with it. He has used the obd and cleared previous errors and nothing has come back to show there is an error.
I can feel from how the car reacts that there is still a problem. I don't want it to get worse.
Could this be down to the fuel injectors or coil pack?
The car is a 2002 2.0 206cc it's serviced on a regular basis, by means of oil filter, oil and air filters. Basically the standard service. I believe it's a fairly well maintained car if that's any help. 82k miles
Hope someone can help cheers!
Mark
Engine issues
Engine issues
They've taken everything that i've had to give and, They say its over man but i'm still here livin', I don't no what to do, I think that maybe, I'm in over my head.......
Re: Engine issues
any warnings come up on the dash? i would have the ECU scanned for codes again and note any, you state the garage cleared previous faults but what where they? i would start at the injectors and have them tested, then new plugs, then coil pack
Re: Engine issues
If it was the coil pack, the engine would run *lumpy* when it looses power due to missfire (you would notice it more at idle) You would also get "anti pollution fault" or "catalytic converter fault" in the centre binnacle.
It sounds like something is causing it to go into limp mode. If so, you would have fault codes stored, If you can get those read and post them here we will try and sort you out
It sounds like something is causing it to go into limp mode. If so, you would have fault codes stored, If you can get those read and post them here we will try and sort you out
Cheers Col.
206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)
When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.
206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)
When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.
Re: Engine issues
Hi all, thanks for the quick reply. The chap who cleared them didn't take note of the fault codes :-(
However I do have a print out that the exhaust place gave me, they did say their scanner may not be up to date but it highlights that its definitely not the catalytic converter as they were the first people I took it to as I thought it was the cat.
It does feel lumpy sometimes when it's trying to clear the back pressure I think. When sitting at the traffic lights I have noticed the car drop to around 600 revs from a constant 800 revs and then back up again. During this time the car juddered a little. Al,out as though its cutting out.
There are absolutely no faults on the dash, or centre comp. No engine management and I've never seen the lambda fault anti pollution alert.
Apparently the guy who cleared the codes, I took the car back to him after driving for a week and suffering the symptoms and he said nothing was recorded on the ecu, or that the ecu had been remapped or chipped. As far as I'm aware it has never been remapped or chipped. Not to my knowledge anyway.
I don't believe that there were no fault codes due to a remap as the codes were initially there before he cleared them?
The codes I have are:-
Code001:
Intake air temperature signal. Short circuit to positive or open circuit - permanent fault
Code002
[MM48P/MM6LP]
Injector supply fault signal 4 open circuit. - permanent fault
[MM4MP2]
Cylinder no.03 injector control. Open circuit - permanent fault
Code003
Intake air temperature signal - permanent fault
Please bear in mind that the air box and sensor have been removed due to an induction filter that I added!
Thanks again guys
Mark
However I do have a print out that the exhaust place gave me, they did say their scanner may not be up to date but it highlights that its definitely not the catalytic converter as they were the first people I took it to as I thought it was the cat.
It does feel lumpy sometimes when it's trying to clear the back pressure I think. When sitting at the traffic lights I have noticed the car drop to around 600 revs from a constant 800 revs and then back up again. During this time the car juddered a little. Al,out as though its cutting out.
There are absolutely no faults on the dash, or centre comp. No engine management and I've never seen the lambda fault anti pollution alert.
Apparently the guy who cleared the codes, I took the car back to him after driving for a week and suffering the symptoms and he said nothing was recorded on the ecu, or that the ecu had been remapped or chipped. As far as I'm aware it has never been remapped or chipped. Not to my knowledge anyway.
I don't believe that there were no fault codes due to a remap as the codes were initially there before he cleared them?
The codes I have are:-
Code001:
Intake air temperature signal. Short circuit to positive or open circuit - permanent fault
Code002
[MM48P/MM6LP]
Injector supply fault signal 4 open circuit. - permanent fault
[MM4MP2]
Cylinder no.03 injector control. Open circuit - permanent fault
Code003
Intake air temperature signal - permanent fault
Please bear in mind that the air box and sensor have been removed due to an induction filter that I added!
Thanks again guys
Mark
They've taken everything that i've had to give and, They say its over man but i'm still here livin', I don't no what to do, I think that maybe, I'm in over my head.......
Re: Engine issues
Faults should always be printed off before clearing or else you have no before and after baseline.
#1 Is due to you removing air box (Bad move- poor fuel consumption/ no, or little power gain and sometimes power loss. You would do better to fit a K&N filter element in original housing)
The fact you have removed the IAT sensor may well be causing car to go into limp as ecu cannot determine fuel correction needed due to ambient temp. re install original airbox to prove/ disprove if this is the cause.
If not-and I think this is more likely-
From other faults given, and assuming these codes are current, your misfire is caused by intermittent injector operation on cyls 3&4.
This may be the injectors themselves, the wiring, or control circuit. The injectors have a plug with 2 wires. 1 wire is a permanent 12V + with ign on, the other is 12V - (ground) pulsed by the ecu.
If you loose the pos supply, the pulsed neg, or the injector goes open circuit, you will get the codes that you have.
If I were faulting this I would firstly check with a multimeter that you have the same impedance (ohms) across all 4 injectors. Then check you have 12V across 1 leg of each of the injector plugs and ground.
If this checks out OK, (which I will expect it will as fault is intermittant, but you may catch it)
clear the faults, swap injectors 3&4 with injectors 1&2, wait for problem to re occur then see if fault has moved to cyls 1&2. If so faulty injectors.
If you can beg, buy, borrow or steal a set of noid lights you can check the overall circuits to the injectors. They should flash in sympathy to the injection pulses.
Do yourself a favour and re-install original airbox even if fault turns out to be injectors.
Your ecu takes references from many sensors on the engine to determine the optimum fuel and spark timing needed for maximum efficiency (read power & economy) If one of these sensors is removed the ecu cant perform this calculation accurately, and will either go into reduced power (limp) to protect engine, or will give it *it's best guess* based on info available. the IAT sensor that you have removed, tells the ECU what the ambiant temp is going into your engine, the engine requires more fuel in colder temps, less when warmer. So by removing the sensor you are confusing the ecu and it won't perform at it's best.
Also, Peugeot like other manufactures, spend a lot of money reasearching the best configuration for maximum power WITH economy, so your inlet pipe is made to a specific tuned length to give a good overall spread of power and torque through the rev range.
Changing the volume and length of this pipe will alter those characteristics and move power up or down the rev range.
If you are seeking more power then you need to run something like an Emerald or Wolf programmable ecu together with a cam, inlet, exhaust, injectors all chosen to work together as a package.
What you have done will give a throaty inlet sound and that's it, in the same way as a dump valve on a turbo doesn't give more power just more noise!!
To give you an Idea of what I'm on about, this is an engine I have just built for a customer. It's a big block Chevy with full roller valve train, special custom grind cam with 4-7 swap, inconel exhaust valves, Edelbrock Victor inlet, Keith Eickert exhaust headers, Holley HP EFI programmable injection etc etc!
#1 Is due to you removing air box (Bad move- poor fuel consumption/ no, or little power gain and sometimes power loss. You would do better to fit a K&N filter element in original housing)
The fact you have removed the IAT sensor may well be causing car to go into limp as ecu cannot determine fuel correction needed due to ambient temp. re install original airbox to prove/ disprove if this is the cause.
If not-and I think this is more likely-
From other faults given, and assuming these codes are current, your misfire is caused by intermittent injector operation on cyls 3&4.
This may be the injectors themselves, the wiring, or control circuit. The injectors have a plug with 2 wires. 1 wire is a permanent 12V + with ign on, the other is 12V - (ground) pulsed by the ecu.
If you loose the pos supply, the pulsed neg, or the injector goes open circuit, you will get the codes that you have.
If I were faulting this I would firstly check with a multimeter that you have the same impedance (ohms) across all 4 injectors. Then check you have 12V across 1 leg of each of the injector plugs and ground.
If this checks out OK, (which I will expect it will as fault is intermittant, but you may catch it)
clear the faults, swap injectors 3&4 with injectors 1&2, wait for problem to re occur then see if fault has moved to cyls 1&2. If so faulty injectors.
If you can beg, buy, borrow or steal a set of noid lights you can check the overall circuits to the injectors. They should flash in sympathy to the injection pulses.
Do yourself a favour and re-install original airbox even if fault turns out to be injectors.
Your ecu takes references from many sensors on the engine to determine the optimum fuel and spark timing needed for maximum efficiency (read power & economy) If one of these sensors is removed the ecu cant perform this calculation accurately, and will either go into reduced power (limp) to protect engine, or will give it *it's best guess* based on info available. the IAT sensor that you have removed, tells the ECU what the ambiant temp is going into your engine, the engine requires more fuel in colder temps, less when warmer. So by removing the sensor you are confusing the ecu and it won't perform at it's best.
Also, Peugeot like other manufactures, spend a lot of money reasearching the best configuration for maximum power WITH economy, so your inlet pipe is made to a specific tuned length to give a good overall spread of power and torque through the rev range.
Changing the volume and length of this pipe will alter those characteristics and move power up or down the rev range.
If you are seeking more power then you need to run something like an Emerald or Wolf programmable ecu together with a cam, inlet, exhaust, injectors all chosen to work together as a package.
What you have done will give a throaty inlet sound and that's it, in the same way as a dump valve on a turbo doesn't give more power just more noise!!
To give you an Idea of what I'm on about, this is an engine I have just built for a customer. It's a big block Chevy with full roller valve train, special custom grind cam with 4-7 swap, inconel exhaust valves, Edelbrock Victor inlet, Keith Eickert exhaust headers, Holley HP EFI programmable injection etc etc!
Cheers Col.
206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)
When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.
206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)
When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.
Re: Engine issues
That all seems a little beyond my knowledge! I reckon I may print this off and take the car to another garage! :-(
They've taken everything that i've had to give and, They say its over man but i'm still here livin', I don't no what to do, I think that maybe, I'm in over my head.......
Re: Engine issues
Hi guys just looking to re-install the air filter box, however I can't find anywhere for the iat? Any one know where the harness plugs into? Thanks
They've taken everything that i've had to give and, They say its over man but i'm still here livin', I don't no what to do, I think that maybe, I'm in over my head.......
Re: Engine issues
Right guys got a noid set only a tenner and tested the signal from the loom heading to the injectors.
On all four injectors, I'm getting a good strong flash in time by the look and sounds of it!
I've replaced the sparks, oh my word what a b!&%h to get out! They're awful things! I brought some nice shiny super 4s Bosch as I read ngks are sparks the pug ecu doesn't like! The old sparks were so tight I broke the rod trying to undo them. :-( anyways they're all installed and happy now!
The car ticks over and sounds like its a good run! Gonna take it for a drive in a little while to see if the problem has gone. The old sparks were champion sparks and look quite hard done to. There is no black deposits, but they look noticeable old in comparison to the new set!
I will post back shortly! :-)
Also when fitting the air box I can't find where the iat needs to go in I have a left over plug!
On all four injectors, I'm getting a good strong flash in time by the look and sounds of it!
I've replaced the sparks, oh my word what a b!&%h to get out! They're awful things! I brought some nice shiny super 4s Bosch as I read ngks are sparks the pug ecu doesn't like! The old sparks were so tight I broke the rod trying to undo them. :-( anyways they're all installed and happy now!
The car ticks over and sounds like its a good run! Gonna take it for a drive in a little while to see if the problem has gone. The old sparks were champion sparks and look quite hard done to. There is no black deposits, but they look noticeable old in comparison to the new set!
I will post back shortly! :-)
Also when fitting the air box I can't find where the iat needs to go in I have a left over plug!
They've taken everything that i've had to give and, They say its over man but i'm still here livin', I don't no what to do, I think that maybe, I'm in over my head.......
Re: Engine issues
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They've taken everything that i've had to give and, They say its over man but i'm still here livin', I don't no what to do, I think that maybe, I'm in over my head.......
Re: Engine issues
Ok from the spark change it seems more powerful and responsive however 45 mins into the drive and symptoms start to occur although less harshly at first. I then experienced the same symptoms for the remainder of the journey.
They've taken everything that i've had to give and, They say its over man but i'm still here livin', I don't no what to do, I think that maybe, I'm in over my head.......
Re: Engine issues
Your problem isn't spark plug related because you would get anti pollution fault if it was.
Assuming no mechanical problems ie low compression etc: (It runs ok for quite a while before problems start)
Then a missfire will be caused because----
A: Ignition system failure- Spark plugs, coil pack etc. If this is the case you will get "anti pollution fault" (which you say you don't get)
B: Lack of fuel to one or more cylinders- Caused by faulty injector(s) wiring, or ecu. You won't get anti pollution fault because you have no unburnt fuel going down the exhaust.
You need to look at the injection side thoroughly and try the noids when it starts to missfire.
Assuming no mechanical problems ie low compression etc: (It runs ok for quite a while before problems start)
Then a missfire will be caused because----
A: Ignition system failure- Spark plugs, coil pack etc. If this is the case you will get "anti pollution fault" (which you say you don't get)
B: Lack of fuel to one or more cylinders- Caused by faulty injector(s) wiring, or ecu. You won't get anti pollution fault because you have no unburnt fuel going down the exhaust.
You need to look at the injection side thoroughly and try the noids when it starts to missfire.
Cheers Col.
206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)
When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.
206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)
When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.
Re: Engine issues
Problem doing the noid test is it only misfires when under load ie driving, whilst its idling it sits nice!
Thanks for your response It does seem more likely to be injector side though! I reckon I'm going to have to take it to a garage rather than messing with it further!
Again thanks for your help guys
Thanks for your response It does seem more likely to be injector side though! I reckon I'm going to have to take it to a garage rather than messing with it further!
Again thanks for your help guys
They've taken everything that i've had to give and, They say its over man but i'm still here livin', I don't no what to do, I think that maybe, I'm in over my head.......
Re: Engine issues
Hmmm. Time for live data on a good diagnostic machine then.
Let us know the outcome please.
Let us know the outcome please.
Cheers Col.
206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)
When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.
206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)
When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.
Re: Engine issues
I will its booked in at an independent peugeot garage now, going on a proper "peugeot" brain apparently so I will come back with the codes etc once I have them! It's going in on Tuesday! Apparently they're that busy!
Which I suppose is a good sign :-)
Which I suppose is a good sign :-)
They've taken everything that i've had to give and, They say its over man but i'm still here livin', I don't no what to do, I think that maybe, I'm in over my head.......
Re: Engine issues
Hi all, finally got a resolution. I took it to the guy and he had it for the whole of 24 hours. He placed on the brain and said that the issues were the air intake connector which we knew about, and a fault on injector four not firing. To fix a new injector is required. Wished I'd done the labour as seems a simple job to swap the injector out but for new part it cost 90 + vat and then he charge 3 hours labour on fault finding and removal / replacement...
So it was what I thought it was just a shame I didn't have the scanner etc to fault find to the nth degree. So I'm a little more lighter of money now but she lives on with what seems to be a new vigour of life. I have noticed a hell of a difference with the new sparks and this now new injector... :-)
So it was what I thought it was just a shame I didn't have the scanner etc to fault find to the nth degree. So I'm a little more lighter of money now but she lives on with what seems to be a new vigour of life. I have noticed a hell of a difference with the new sparks and this now new injector... :-)
They've taken everything that i've had to give and, They say its over man but i'm still here livin', I don't no what to do, I think that maybe, I'm in over my head.......