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Torsion bar adjustment

Bodykits, alloy bits'n'pieces etc etc

Postby toot » Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:23 pm

hi all.

had my car lowered at the weekend. i asked for 35mm which is what i got at the front but the back seems to be lower by about 70mm. Apparently, this is one notch on the torsion bar. The tyre is inside the arch and I don't like it. The tyre seems to occasionally rub against the arch by the sounds of it and I don't feel safe at all. Also, i think the tyre being hidden spoils the curves of the car. i wanted it like the BMW's have it, the arch about 2cm from the tyre at the front and back.

Does 1 notch on the bar really go that low? Trying to get the guy to give me a date where he can put it back up but wants to phone me tomorrow (I called yesterday after picking it up on Saturday). i want it done ASAP though as I'm quite nervous about driving it, don't want to ruin my lovely 17" wheels.
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Postby Peter206 » Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:17 pm

Ive brought some eibach springs myself several months ago and i wanna get them put on. i think they lower the car by 35mm too.

Did it cost you much too have all the springs and torson bar adjusted?

does it improve handling much or do you feel like your on top of a washing machine.

sorry i can help you with the orginal question. :cry:
life is meaningless, eventually it'll make sense.
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Postby toot » Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:55 pm

My springs are Apex. They lower 35mm at the front which is just right. As I say though, the torsion bar has been adjusted by one notch allegedly and its dropped the back by 70mm which I don't like.

Feels very bouncy and its recommended I upgrade the shocks at the back but I won't be paying for that as I want the back put to its original setting as the tyres are rubbing. I wouldn't recommend it if you use your car for driving to work etc.

Springs cost me £55, fitting was £140 inc torsion bar. It was going to cost me £100 for fitting but the springs at the front were edged in so someone else had to do it for me.
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Postby WebCode » Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:39 pm

Eh, whoever lowered Ur car doesn't know what they are on about..

There are two ways of adjusting them..

The wrong way is:
By removing one of the torx bolts from each of the torsion bars then knocking each of the radius arms of the beam then lifting it up and pushing it back on using the splines as the guide..
By doing it this way is is very very likely that the needle roller bearings and oil seals in the arms will be irreversably damaged..
It will not be immediately apparent, however after some time the bearing will slowly collapse and the rear wheel camber will become excessive..
Note:
By the above method each "spline" will be around 36mm.. So Ur car has been lowered 2 "splines"...

I Know that this is the way that many "tuners" do it but it is not correct..
Especially with the 206, as the needle bearings are very fine and are not captive within the bearing housing..
Whereas the 106/saxo for example have bigger rollers and are captive and have a little less of a tendancy to be damaged..
But in each case the oil seals are fragile if mishandled.. water gets in and then the whole beam could be destroyed..

The correct way is:
To completely remove each of the torsion bars in turn.. Raising the radius arm the amount you want the car to be lowered by.
Then reinserting the bar into the beam & arm assembly..
By this method the radius arm does not need to be knocked off the beam, and therefore the roller bearings will remain intact..
With this method the car can be lowered in steps of 1mm or so..

Important Note:
It is unwise to lower the rear of the car more than the front, as this will seriously affect the way the car handles due the chassis design and could cause U to loose control in not to extreme conditions..
ie: So if the car has 35mm lowering springs fitted then it should only be lowered 35mm at the rear..
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It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we fight, but for freedom
alone, which no good man gives up except with his life. Arbroath 1320
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Postby teddy206 GTi » Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:57 pm

To remove the torsion bar you need a slide hammer don't you??

So basically u use the hammer to pull the torsion bar out of the arm rather than the push of a normal hammer?
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Postby toot » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:37 am

WebCode, you're scaring me now. You seem to know a lot about this, you had a lot of experience in lowering I take it?
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Postby Esselle » Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:24 pm

hi all.

Trying to get the guy to give me a date where he can put it back up but wants to phone me tomorrow (I called yesterday after picking it up on Saturday). i want it done ASAP though as I'm quite nervous about driving it, don't want to ruin my lovely 17" wheels.


Why does he want to call you tomorrow with a date? Surely the guy knows his workload :!: :!: :!:
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Postby toot » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:53 pm

You would think so.

He says I should fit uprated shocks at the rear which will push the car back up by the right amount so the tyre is clear enough of the arch. Should be early next week. Will see how it goes, if no good, will have to ask for it to be put back which I hope won't cause any problems.
toot
 
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Postby WebCode » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:06 pm

What a load of old B*****KS.... Sticking "uprated" shocks on will NOT raise the car.. (unless the shocks had a massive amount of "preload" built into them, but I can't think of any manufacturer that would supply an item like that!)

The bar is NOT set right and as such my recommendation is to get it sorted properly before you even consider uprating the shocks...!!!

And yes I have lowered many cars, especially those fitted with the torsion bar arrangement..
For as long as but one hundred of us remain alive, we will never on any
condition submit to the domination of the English.
It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we fight, but for freedom
alone, which no good man gives up except with his life. Arbroath 1320
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Postby WebCode » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:31 pm

On the subject of shocks..

The standard ones are reasonably Ok with a suspension drop of up to 40mm.. However Peugeot shocks are not particularly good anyway. They have a tendancy to start leaking even after only 10K miles..

If U intend to go lower than 40mm then a set of shortened/uprated items will be required.

The idea of "uprating" is to have a shock that is reasoably matched to the spring.. So if Ur spring choice (different spring rate) has left u with a slightly more "bouncy" feel (rebound) then u need a shock that has increased rebound damping, so reducing the rebound that U have experienced..

NOTE: In my opinion the best matched springs for standard dampers have to be Eibach.. Yes they are probably the most expensive at approx £90 a pair, but don't have excessive increased rebound..
It is also worth considering "Ventura" springs that are available from Eurocarparts.. They are very similar to the the Eibach spec and at £60 a pair are good value for money..
I dont rate AVO, SPAX, KONI etc.. To much rebound..

REBOUND: After a shock is compressed it will extend because of spring force

REBOUND DAMPENING: Rebound dampening controls the rate at which the shock will extend

SPRING RATE: The force needed to compress the spring one inch

Remember that each of the torsion bars are actually "springs" and do the same job as the coil springs fitted to the front of the car..

It would be worth considering sticking the torsion bars from the 206GTi in ur CC. As a few of us have done.. this does improve turn in and to some degree hispeed stability..

Part No's are: 5150-78 & 5150-80
OE CC diameter is 19mm, GTi ones are 19.5mm
Note that the bars are "sided" and are marked as such..

Another worthwhile consideration is also sticking the GTi Rear anti roll bar in.. Part no: 5170-A9... OE CC diameter is 19mm the GTi item is 21mm

Contact "Darth Bourj" on this forum for his thoughts on the GTi bars as fitted to his CC..
For as long as but one hundred of us remain alive, we will never on any
condition submit to the domination of the English.
It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we fight, but for freedom
alone, which no good man gives up except with his life. Arbroath 1320
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